for the following products
3-(2-Piperidino-thien-2-yl)-5-(2,5-dihydro-4-methyl-2-piperidin-1-ylidene-onium-thien-5-ylidene)-1,2-dioxo-cyclopenten-4-olate and 3-(2-Piperidino-thien-2-yl)-5-(2,5-dihydro-4-methyl-2-[piperidin-1-ylidene-onium]-thien-5-ylidene
